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Muslim women: My headscarf is not a threat
No disrespect to hijab, or Muslim customs; but I couldn’t ignore couple of things while reading this article and looking at Seyam’s picture. She spoke of modesty, inner beauty, and “shifting the attention from her outer self to her inner self”. My question is, did she thought of modesty and inner beauty before or after she applied heavy make up, powder, foundation, blush, eyeliner, mascara, tint-shadow, lip-gloss and clipped her eyebrows?
How do you know that is makeup?
maybe it is just our american women who must wear these things. I’ve noticed alot of people of indian descent that have natural color and beauty unlike some of the beasts we live with.
We don’t have to look like a monster in order to have modesty or inner beauty. your an idiot!!
Fifty-one percent said they are “very worried” or “somewhat worried” that women wearing the hijab are treated poorly, according to the poll.
ok.
100% of non-muslim women in Saudi Arabia are treated worse if the women do not cover their body from head to toe.
so one ignorant individual bothered her. this is significantly different from a government or society mistreating her.
Ask any woman what happens to them should they venture out in a public place in Muslim nation.
What do Muslim women want? to be treated as if they were in their own country where they cannot leave the house alone?
What the women experienced is what everyone experiences in a free society at some point whether you’re wearing a goth clothing at the Gap, or wearing a political T-Shirt at the mall. If she thinks she had it bad, try wearing a Chargers jersey to a Raiders game in Oakland.
How do I know? I am a woman that’s how I know and I did my homework. But even without an investigation, by looking at the picture there is no doubt that she is covered up with makeup very heavily (perhaps a makeup-artists suggested it?). Also, I don’t really care whether she is wearing hijab or makeup – that’s her business; I just thought that her comments contradicted her appearance. By covering up hair while altering one’s face – that’s hardly modesty or inner beauty. Try investigating first, before calling someone an idiot – ask Rehan Seyam yourself if you will.
Interesting that your decision to wear a hijab had precisely the opposite effect than you intended. It seems to have placed more focus on your outer self and from your comments it has certainly hasn’t suited you.
Sorry, but most ladies don’t wear hajib over here. My culture and history has has moulded my behaviour to think you have something to hide. This reaction is no different to Muslim who are insulted if I do not follow their ways when I visit their countries, which by the way I do to avoid conflict.
Do feel free to move to any Muslim country. I can assure you there will be no prejudice , no catcalls, and of course no freedom.
This quote from Roosevelt is for everyone who call themselves Mexican, Cuban, Latin, Muslim, Hispanic, Chinese or whatever else but try to add American after it.
In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicted upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American… There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American but something else also, isn’t American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American Flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language… And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
Remember, whatever you say first is your true allegiance. Stop calling yourself American when you definitely are not.
Muslims have never and will never be American. There is nothing about the West they believe in. The only reason they are here is for the American Job, not to be American. They make that very clear. Peace loving my ass, they stone to death women who have been raped. Does this sound peaceful to you?
We love women in America, we do not cover them up nor do we stone them to death when they piss us off.
Although, in my personal opinion, I believe that covering one’s face or hair for the purpose of obligation, or to redirect attention from the feminine outer beauty else where to show purity or stop men from looking at you as a piece of meat, is not only a waist of time, but a waist of much effort as well. If men are the issue, then men should do something about the urges that they feel (perhaps learn to control themselves when they see hair) not other way around. From my experience, wisdom, knowledge, skill and intelligence make a difference in showing off the inner beauty. Also, I can’t help but to think that the entire practice sounds very chauvinistic and done to please men or help men to control themselves; whereas one (especially a woman) should concentrated on her own development as an individual and think less about what she should do to help men around her learn how to control their sexuality and perceive her as something else besides “meat”. If I am right, this custom is only designed to not show hair to men; I could be wrong however, if the custom dictates that hair should not be shown at all (meaning men, women, or at all) then it will eliminate my assumption of chauvinism. In that case this custom is just a religious taboo, which is fine. Nonetheless, additionally and most importantly, I strongly believe that no one should be discriminated based on how they look or what religion they choose. And, I do believe and know that many Muslims have been and are outstanding American citizens who serve this society with outmost generosity, readiness, and humbleness and should not be treated as second class citizens.
Many Muslim women in the U.S. are in their “own country”, as they were born here, or convereted as adults. There have been heavy Islamic concentrations in Detroit, Dearborn, Toledo, New York, and D.C. for four generations.
irinical:
Nuns and women who belong to other conservative (Mennonite, Amish, Shaker) religious communities dress modestly, and we have never heard American Christians call it a waste of time. They also are not harassed for their devotional attire, so a double standard exists.
usrname:
Millions of Muslims are American, either by birth of citizenship. Have been since slavery. The free exercise clause of The Constitution affords freedom of worship here. All worship. In The Treaty of Tripoli, no less a patriot than John Adams declared that:
“…As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries…” (Article 11).
Jefferson, Washington and others were quite familiar with the Holy Qu’aran and other Eastern texts (and rather influenced by Eastern thought too- witness the amount of early U.S. presidents and statesmen who were Freemasons- an order that calls it members “shriners”, wear hats called a “fez”, and built obelisks such as The Washington Monument in addition to other architectural nods to North Africa and the Middle East (the George Washington Masonic Temple, his home lodge in Alexandria, Va., is modeled after the Library at Alexandria, Egypt).
The free exercise clause (it’s not about a complimentary membership to a fitness club, it’s about the primary reason many of those who “settled” this nation- if settled is the proper word given there were millions of indigenous people already living here- left England and other countries- because they were forbidden the right to practice their faith freely there):
“…Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….” (Amendment 1)
In the United States, one may practice, without encumbrance, Judaism, Catholicism, Buddhism, Islam, the Ba’hai faith, be a Mormon, a Quaker, or claim no religion at all.
As for the link between terrorism and faith, the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan has firebombed and burned Black southern churches, shot, lynched, castrated, harassed, terrorized, drowned, and sabotaged since the end of the Civil War. 90 of the church fires have occurred since 1990, with a particular rash of them in 1995-96. Terrorism is not the exclusive province of Muslims. Ever hear of the Irish Republican Army? Or Tim McVey?
You are so wrong. Millions of Muslims are just millions of Muslims. You are trying to take words of American Greats and make them fit your cause, it doesn’t work. Islamic concentrations (Your words exactly) IS what they are, not Americans. Americans assimilate, Muslims don’t.
Muslims Americans? How do you integrate Muslims into American politics and culture? You don’t. America was based on a Judea/Christian ethic with deep roots in history, Islam sprang from a different tree. The point is, they come to America but still live in the origin they came from. That isn’t being American at all. To adopt American/Western mores and ethics as well as the politics of Democracy, amounts to a violation of Islam. They cannot be integrated without rejecting Islam and that, they will not do.
“…How do you integrate Muslims into American politics and culture?…”
The same way we do Native Americans with their many faiths, Buddhists, Jews, and Hindus. We have had Muslim mayors, Muslim actors, Muslim heavyweight and lightheavyweight champs, Muslim professors, merchants, and Muslim slaves in this land since 1619. Adherents of Islam have assimilated better than any demographic group- they have the largest income per capita in the U.S., and on average, the highest educational status per citizen. Many hail from places other than the Middle East, such as Nigeria, Bosnia, Pakistan, Indonesia, and the Philippines.
A better question is, how might we incorporate the Christian into this society. Since before the Mayflower, Christians on these shores have polluted the lakes and rivers, annihilated the bison and the bald eagle, committed genocide on the indigenous people of Canada and the rest of North America, enslaved and segregated the Black, persecuted and discriminated against the Jew, subjugated and denied freedoms to women, poisoned the very air we breath, destroyed the forests and timberlands, and are now fomenting war against science and technology in the schools and universities.
Since the Muslims have been here since 1619, it would seem pretty clear to me that isn’t just the white people who have destroyed all these things you speak of.
You completely missed what I was trying to say. My comment has nothing to do with religious attire or modesty but rather has to do with the reasons, justifications, and explanations why hijab is worn (relating to this article in particular). Many statements are thrown out such as, “I am looked at as a piece of meat” etc.- to give the benefit of a doubt to the person, I assume that’s exactly what’s going on, or worse that’s how she feels; perhaps dressing in clothes that are modest could resolve this issue, but trying to base the argument on simply hair being the attractive part, has nothing to do with it, especially in this country. So, as a woman, I can’t help but to think that the entire practice is done to please certain men or help those men control their sexual urges related to simply hair and has nothing or very little to do with modesty itself. What I also find interesting is that this custom is only designed to not show hair to men. If I am wrong and the custom does dictate that hair should not be shown at all (meaning men, women) then it will eliminate my assumption of chauvinism and trying to please men. In that case this custom is just a religious taboo, which is absolutely fine with me.
We said nothing of “white”- we said “Christian”. And we did not use the “…words of American Greats…” for our own purpose- Adams made those statements in the Treaty of Tripoli, when the issues were far different than today. This country was founded (ostensibly) on the free exercise of religion- all religion.
It is about more than not showing hair to men. There are many faiths in which believers cover their head- Sikh, nuns, Jewish men among them. There is also garb designed to modestly drape the body- the sari, the habit, the Amish long dress, the jilbab- and the practice is not limited to Islam. The point of the CNN article is that it is the Islamic woman who is harassed for such.
Thank You!
Exactly my point, explain it as such; perhaps something in lines of ‘my religion dictates so and that’s how it is’. Hiding behind other reasons is not truthful and demeaning to other people men and women. By basing your explanations on the fact that you want to avoid being a “piece of meat” or to avoid “catcalls” sends a message that all women are promiscuous and men are dogs in this society – which is, for the majority, is not true. I am a woman and I am modest in what I wear, but I don’t cover my hair and I am fairly good looking and in shape, I was never treated as a piece of meat by men as long as I remember. This is an integrated and diverse society, and yes, some of us are more ignorant than others, and some choose to dress in a certain way due to wants or beliefs – respect that, and embrace it – do not try to put it back on the society. If an ignorant individual made that comment; well, as wrong as it is, he was expressing his views, which is different from hers, yours, or mine – however, that’s the price of diversity and freedom of expression. An honest comment would have been (reflecting back on that incident), ‘this is what I believe; to me I feel this is the will of God (or Allah) and I want people to respect that’. By stating other reasons, “piece of meat”, “catcalls” etc. is simply dishonest and unfair to the majority of this society. Her approach in explaining this issue was wrong, as a result, the article caused outrage – people can’t help but to have mixed thoughts about the reasons why she chooses to wear hijab. If she would have said, ‘I am as much part of this society as any of you, political statements and terrorism have nothing to do with the way I dress; I dress this way, for the simple reasons of my beliefs – hijab, to me, is a will of God. Since I don’t judge you, please simply don’t judge me.’
The comment would have made people think, and reflect; however, I still think people to some degree would have questioned whether comment was expressed in exact way as she stated, since we don’t have the other party (man who made those comments) to confirm or dispute- nevertheless, people would have felt more sympathetic and accepting since all of us have our own beliefs and inherently, we do tend to think that individuality and choice is our right not a privilege.
Allah is merely an Arabic word for God, similar to a person from Spain saying “Dios”, or a Jew saying “y-w-h”. It is not an “or” or alternate deity, as Zeus would be.
…and despite what “usrname” might wish, a faith practiced by 1.4 billion people, that’s been around since 600 A.D., isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. It’s the fastest growing religion in the U.S.
Muslim women: My headscarf is not a threat
No disrespect to hijab, or Muslim customs; but I couldn’t ignore couple of things while reading this article and looking at Seyam’s picture. She spoke of modesty, inner beauty, and “shifting the attention from her outer self to her inner self”. My question is, did she thought of modesty and inner beauty before or after she applied heavy make up, powder, foundation, blush, eyeliner, mascara, tint-shadow, lip-gloss and clipped her eyebrows?
How do you know that is makeup?
maybe it is just our american women who must wear these things. I’ve noticed alot of people of indian descent that have natural color and beauty unlike some of the beasts we live with.
We don’t have to look like a monster in order to have modesty or inner beauty. your an idiot!!
Fifty-one percent said they are “very worried” or “somewhat worried” that women wearing the hijab are treated poorly, according to the poll.
ok.
100% of non-muslim women in Saudi Arabia are treated worse if the women do not cover their body from head to toe.
so one ignorant individual bothered her. this is significantly different from a government or society mistreating her.
Ask any woman what happens to them should they venture out in a public place in Muslim nation.
What do Muslim women want? to be treated as if they were in their own country where they cannot leave the house alone?
What the women experienced is what everyone experiences in a free society at some point whether you’re wearing a goth clothing at the Gap, or wearing a political T-Shirt at the mall. If she thinks she had it bad, try wearing a Chargers jersey to a Raiders game in Oakland.
This is life. Live.
to the kettle: good one, why are people dying to get here, then refusing to assimilate?
to mfox63: lern too spel.
Dear mfox63,
How do I know? I am a woman that’s how I know and I did my homework. But even without an investigation, by looking at the picture there is no doubt that she is covered up with makeup very heavily (perhaps a makeup-artists suggested it?). Also, I don’t really care whether she is wearing hijab or makeup – that’s her business; I just thought that her comments contradicted her appearance. By covering up hair while altering one’s face – that’s hardly modesty or inner beauty. Try investigating first, before calling someone an idiot – ask Rehan Seyam yourself if you will.
Leilanni,
Lern too spel, FUNNY!!!!
Interesting that your decision to wear a hijab had precisely the opposite effect than you intended. It seems to have placed more focus on your outer self and from your comments it has certainly hasn’t suited you.
Sorry, but most ladies don’t wear hajib over here. My culture and history has has moulded my behaviour to think you have something to hide. This reaction is no different to Muslim who are insulted if I do not follow their ways when I visit their countries, which by the way I do to avoid conflict.
Do feel free to move to any Muslim country. I can assure you there will be no prejudice , no catcalls, and of course no freedom.
This quote from Roosevelt is for everyone who call themselves Mexican, Cuban, Latin, Muslim, Hispanic, Chinese or whatever else but try to add American after it.
In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicted upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American… There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American but something else also, isn’t American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American Flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language… And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
Remember, whatever you say first is your true allegiance. Stop calling yourself American when you definitely are not.
Muslims have never and will never be American. There is nothing about the West they believe in. The only reason they are here is for the American Job, not to be American. They make that very clear. Peace loving my ass, they stone to death women who have been raped. Does this sound peaceful to you?
We love women in America, we do not cover them up nor do we stone them to death when they piss us off.
Dear mfox63,
Try the Middle East, I hear the women are beautiful there.
Although, in my personal opinion, I believe that covering one’s face or hair for the purpose of obligation, or to redirect attention from the feminine outer beauty else where to show purity or stop men from looking at you as a piece of meat, is not only a waist of time, but a waist of much effort as well. If men are the issue, then men should do something about the urges that they feel (perhaps learn to control themselves when they see hair) not other way around. From my experience, wisdom, knowledge, skill and intelligence make a difference in showing off the inner beauty. Also, I can’t help but to think that the entire practice sounds very chauvinistic and done to please men or help men to control themselves; whereas one (especially a woman) should concentrated on her own development as an individual and think less about what she should do to help men around her learn how to control their sexuality and perceive her as something else besides “meat”. If I am right, this custom is only designed to not show hair to men; I could be wrong however, if the custom dictates that hair should not be shown at all (meaning men, women, or at all) then it will eliminate my assumption of chauvinism. In that case this custom is just a religious taboo, which is fine. Nonetheless, additionally and most importantly, I strongly believe that no one should be discriminated based on how they look or what religion they choose. And, I do believe and know that many Muslims have been and are outstanding American citizens who serve this society with outmost generosity, readiness, and humbleness and should not be treated as second class citizens.
thekettle:
Many Muslim women in the U.S. are in their “own country”, as they were born here, or convereted as adults. There have been heavy Islamic concentrations in Detroit, Dearborn, Toledo, New York, and D.C. for four generations.
irinical:
Nuns and women who belong to other conservative (Mennonite, Amish, Shaker) religious communities dress modestly, and we have never heard American Christians call it a waste of time. They also are not harassed for their devotional attire, so a double standard exists.
usrname:
Millions of Muslims are American, either by birth of citizenship. Have been since slavery. The free exercise clause of The Constitution affords freedom of worship here. All worship. In The Treaty of Tripoli, no less a patriot than John Adams declared that:
“…As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries…” (Article 11).
Jefferson, Washington and others were quite familiar with the Holy Qu’aran and other Eastern texts (and rather influenced by Eastern thought too- witness the amount of early U.S. presidents and statesmen who were Freemasons- an order that calls it members “shriners”, wear hats called a “fez”, and built obelisks such as The Washington Monument in addition to other architectural nods to North Africa and the Middle East (the George Washington Masonic Temple, his home lodge in Alexandria, Va., is modeled after the Library at Alexandria, Egypt).
BCB
The free exercise clause (it’s not about a complimentary membership to a fitness club, it’s about the primary reason many of those who “settled” this nation- if settled is the proper word given there were millions of indigenous people already living here- left England and other countries- because they were forbidden the right to practice their faith freely there):
“…Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….” (Amendment 1)
In the United States, one may practice, without encumbrance, Judaism, Catholicism, Buddhism, Islam, the Ba’hai faith, be a Mormon, a Quaker, or claim no religion at all.
As for the link between terrorism and faith, the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan has firebombed and burned Black southern churches, shot, lynched, castrated, harassed, terrorized, drowned, and sabotaged since the end of the Civil War. 90 of the church fires have occurred since 1990, with a particular rash of them in 1995-96. Terrorism is not the exclusive province of Muslims. Ever hear of the Irish Republican Army? Or Tim McVey?
BCB
Bijanc,
You are so wrong. Millions of Muslims are just millions of Muslims. You are trying to take words of American Greats and make them fit your cause, it doesn’t work. Islamic concentrations (Your words exactly) IS what they are, not Americans. Americans assimilate, Muslims don’t.
Muslims Americans? How do you integrate Muslims into American politics and culture? You don’t. America was based on a Judea/Christian ethic with deep roots in history, Islam sprang from a different tree. The point is, they come to America but still live in the origin they came from. That isn’t being American at all. To adopt American/Western mores and ethics as well as the politics of Democracy, amounts to a violation of Islam. They cannot be integrated without rejecting Islam and that, they will not do.
usrname:
“…How do you integrate Muslims into American politics and culture?…”
The same way we do Native Americans with their many faiths, Buddhists, Jews, and Hindus. We have had Muslim mayors, Muslim actors, Muslim heavyweight and lightheavyweight champs, Muslim professors, merchants, and Muslim slaves in this land since 1619. Adherents of Islam have assimilated better than any demographic group- they have the largest income per capita in the U.S., and on average, the highest educational status per citizen. Many hail from places other than the Middle East, such as Nigeria, Bosnia, Pakistan, Indonesia, and the Philippines.
BCB
usrname:
A better question is, how might we incorporate the Christian into this society. Since before the Mayflower, Christians on these shores have polluted the lakes and rivers, annihilated the bison and the bald eagle, committed genocide on the indigenous people of Canada and the rest of North America, enslaved and segregated the Black, persecuted and discriminated against the Jew, subjugated and denied freedoms to women, poisoned the very air we breath, destroyed the forests and timberlands, and are now fomenting war against science and technology in the schools and universities.
BCB
Since the Muslims have been here since 1619, it would seem pretty clear to me that isn’t just the white people who have destroyed all these things you speak of.
Bijanc:
You completely missed what I was trying to say. My comment has nothing to do with religious attire or modesty but rather has to do with the reasons, justifications, and explanations why hijab is worn (relating to this article in particular). Many statements are thrown out such as, “I am looked at as a piece of meat” etc.- to give the benefit of a doubt to the person, I assume that’s exactly what’s going on, or worse that’s how she feels; perhaps dressing in clothes that are modest could resolve this issue, but trying to base the argument on simply hair being the attractive part, has nothing to do with it, especially in this country. So, as a woman, I can’t help but to think that the entire practice is done to please certain men or help those men control their sexual urges related to simply hair and has nothing or very little to do with modesty itself. What I also find interesting is that this custom is only designed to not show hair to men. If I am wrong and the custom does dictate that hair should not be shown at all (meaning men, women) then it will eliminate my assumption of chauvinism and trying to please men. In that case this custom is just a religious taboo, which is absolutely fine with me.
usrname:
We said nothing of “white”- we said “Christian”. And we did not use the “…words of American Greats…” for our own purpose- Adams made those statements in the Treaty of Tripoli, when the issues were far different than today. This country was founded (ostensibly) on the free exercise of religion- all religion.
BCB
irinacal:
It is about more than not showing hair to men. There are many faiths in which believers cover their head- Sikh, nuns, Jewish men among them. There is also garb designed to modestly drape the body- the sari, the habit, the Amish long dress, the jilbab- and the practice is not limited to Islam. The point of the CNN article is that it is the Islamic woman who is harassed for such.
BCB
Bijanc:
Thank You!
Exactly my point, explain it as such; perhaps something in lines of ‘my religion dictates so and that’s how it is’. Hiding behind other reasons is not truthful and demeaning to other people men and women. By basing your explanations on the fact that you want to avoid being a “piece of meat” or to avoid “catcalls” sends a message that all women are promiscuous and men are dogs in this society – which is, for the majority, is not true. I am a woman and I am modest in what I wear, but I don’t cover my hair and I am fairly good looking and in shape, I was never treated as a piece of meat by men as long as I remember. This is an integrated and diverse society, and yes, some of us are more ignorant than others, and some choose to dress in a certain way due to wants or beliefs – respect that, and embrace it – do not try to put it back on the society. If an ignorant individual made that comment; well, as wrong as it is, he was expressing his views, which is different from hers, yours, or mine – however, that’s the price of diversity and freedom of expression. An honest comment would have been (reflecting back on that incident), ‘this is what I believe; to me I feel this is the will of God (or Allah) and I want people to respect that’. By stating other reasons, “piece of meat”, “catcalls” etc. is simply dishonest and unfair to the majority of this society. Her approach in explaining this issue was wrong, as a result, the article caused outrage – people can’t help but to have mixed thoughts about the reasons why she chooses to wear hijab. If she would have said, ‘I am as much part of this society as any of you, political statements and terrorism have nothing to do with the way I dress; I dress this way, for the simple reasons of my beliefs – hijab, to me, is a will of God. Since I don’t judge you, please simply don’t judge me.’
Continuation:
The comment would have made people think, and reflect; however, I still think people to some degree would have questioned whether comment was expressed in exact way as she stated, since we don’t have the other party (man who made those comments) to confirm or dispute- nevertheless, people would have felt more sympathetic and accepting since all of us have our own beliefs and inherently, we do tend to think that individuality and choice is our right not a privilege.
irinical:
“…the will of God (or Allah) …”
Allah is merely an Arabic word for God, similar to a person from Spain saying “Dios”, or a Jew saying “y-w-h”. It is not an “or” or alternate deity, as Zeus would be.
BCB
Bijanc:
Fair enough.
…and despite what “usrname” might wish, a faith practiced by 1.4 billion people, that’s been around since 600 A.D., isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. It’s the fastest growing religion in the U.S.
BCB